How Can I Highlight My Leadership Skills When I Don’t Have Direct Experience as a People Manager?
Navigating Your Career in Customer Support is Support Driven’s advice column about crafting a career for yourself. Whether you've just landed your first customer support job or you're a seasoned pro, navigating your career can feel challenging. In this column, you'll hear from hiring managers, recruiters, and people who've made big career leaps. They'll share strategies, tools, and their experiences, all to help you craft your dream career. From your first job to that big promotion, Navigating your Career in Customer Support will give you all the support you need to build a career you'll love.
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I don't have direct experience as a people manager, but I do have leadership experience. How can I talk about my leadership experience in a way that demonstrates my ability or potential to manage well?
- Not a Manager Yet
Brittany Ferguson, Senior Customer Support Manager at Brio Systems: We all have a wide variety of adjacent skills and even direct applications to skills that hiring managers are looking for- it all depends on where to look within your own experience.
For someone who has never worked a career in directly managing a team or having direct reports, they may not consider their part in managing in other ways. What other "team leader" skills have you applied? Maybe you have volunteered as a committee leader, been a mentor to a colleague, or taken lead on a project where you had to manage the team's involvement? Many of these skills are hidden in our experience and you just may have to consider the outside areas from work for where you have applied them in the past (or present).
Something else to keep in mind is knowing how to articulate what kind of people manager you want to be. What examples do you have in regards to having a good relationship or experience with a manager? What manager style fits well with you and what manager style do you want to portray?
Denise Twum, Support Process Manager at SmugMug: Sometimes you have to make the pitch for yourself and show that you are willing to put in the work to become a manager. You will never get management experience if you aren’t ever given the opportunity to manage, and that is one of the most painful issues I’ve seen in hiring/job-hunting. It often comes down to someone willing to take a chance on you.
I would add that you should demonstrate in your application and interview the times when you’ve taken it upon yourself to lead an initiative or project, solve a problem that affects your team, advocate for team members on various issues, and coach your colleagues who needed help. All those are aspects of management you can demonstrate without actually being a manager.
Antonio King, Head of Support at Veho: Leadership at its root is really about being able to support people. This could be in the form of subject matter expertise, sharing previous applicable experiences, and even mentorship (either with the direct intention of helping people improve themselves as a professional or something like training).
If there's one thing these examples all have in common with leadership in the traditional sense, it’s that they all are built around supporting others explicitly or implicitly to help them get better.
With that in mind, focus on how you’ve helped those around you become better people and/or better teammates, and what impacts those had on the overall team’s missions and goals. One doesn’t need to be directly accountable of one’s performance to impact that person’s growth personally or professionally.
Stacy Justino, Career Coach and Director of Customer Happiness at Wistia: Another example folks might forget to mention is coaching a sports team (even a rec/casual/work league).
Brittany: I was thinking the same, Stacy. Event organization and planning, too.
Scott Tran, Founder of Support Driven: You should demonstrate in your application and interview the times when you’ve taken it upon yourself to lead an initiative or project, solve a problem that affects your team, advocate for team members on various issues, and coach your colleagues who needed help.
Denise, would you recommend putting these on the resume or cover letter? If it’s on the resume, any suggestions for how to do that?
Denise: Hey Scott, hmm. I think you could allude to it on your resume and expand on it in a cover letter.
For instance, let’s say you’re responsible for handling non-profit application requests on your team and you had to train some other colleagues on the process. You could add the training you created and rolled out, mention how many people you trained, and the impact of that.
This might look like:
Leadership Experience
Non-profit applications specialist on team
Trained 5 new support agents on how to receive, investigate and process non-profit applications
Mentored and worked as SME for all non-profit application requests
Team was able to process 15% more applications after training, and processing time was reduced from 2days to 24hrs
Something like that for the resume, then expand on that in the cover letter.
What Tips Do You Have for Someone Struggling Later in Their Career?
How can older workers be successful in the interview process, specifically what will help them stand out?
- No Spring Chicken
Denise: This is a tough one. I can sense the fear is that someone with too much experience may not fare well in the job market. However I think if you are able to look at your experience and demonstrate in your resume how your experience matches/fits the needs of the company, you should be fine. If you have been learning and continuing to grow your skills in various aspects, make sure that you highlight those as well, as for most jobs, the important thing is the ability to learn, grow and adapt.
Tones: While I’d love to be naive in saying that age never plays a role in the recruiting process, to a degree there’s likely an implicit interest. But, I think it’s important to understand the stigma of older ages in the workforce to help candidates combat that very thing. If we think deeply, there’s common assumptions around older ages: too slow to catch up to trends, an inability to move quickly, fixed mindset over growth mindset - these are all likely perceptions of what it’s like to be an older-aged person in the workforce.
With that, we can move to combat it by demonstrating the opposite. Relate your experiences in previous roles to how adept you are at moving quickly, and provide examples. Understand the company’s mission and, if applicable, the technology so that you can reference when appropriate. Highlight how you’ve handled changes in previous experiences for the better, and embraced them to make yourself a well rounded person and employee.
To be clear, doing all these things won’t necessarily make ageism go away or guarantee a job in a hot new start up if that’s your thing, but it does give you a fighting chance to level the playing field.
Brittany: In my experience I have looked for many entry-level roles so applicants have fit between almost out of college to middle-age. But what I look for applies not only to older workers, but to any applicant: I want to see how they solve problems, where they go for answers, and how familiar they are with some of the existing tools and resources we use.
If we require a certain technical experience or use certain programs, has the applicant used these programs before? How adept are they at the existing tools we use and what kind of stories can they share about their experience? Have they built a website before, or know how to troubleshoot certain tech problems? Are they open to learning and growing in their role?
I'm also a proponent of being transparent in interviews — what are your expectations of the role, what does work-life balance look like, what kind of career growth do you see for yourself?
Stacy: I might also see if you could ask folks you know within your network to share their resume formats. If part of the problem is not getting a recruiter screen, then I’d take some time to focus on updating your resume so it looks and feels “fresh”.
Scott: That’s true, a resume shouldn’t be subject to ageism by default. Related to that, you don’t have to include every job you’ve ever had in the resume.
Brittany: Admittedly, I haven't been in many situations with older workers applying to recent roles that had met the minimum requirements to be considered even without taking age into account. I have noticed that there is a former way of thinking when it comes to applying to jobs and listing every job on a resume. I strongly suggest only including relevant job experience and to bypass some of the bias, high school graduation dates can and should be removed. A cover letter can describe any unrelated work gaps, or there can be creative ways of including the gaps on a resume that are understandable.
Stacy: To Brittany’s point — I’d also say leaving graduation dates off for college degrees / post-high school education. Include the information about where you obtained your degree, what it was in, etc., but leave the dates off.
The exception here would definitely be including dates for recent trainings, education, or certifications.
Brittany: Yes. I thought of that and was a bit concerned about folks who haven't yet completed undergrad, but the other experience would speak for itself along with the expected hours to be worked. I don't mind if someone is still going to school. I just want to make sure they can do both and feel successful and not burned out.
Stacy: Totally! I think for so many of these areas, job seekers assume these are potential “deal breakers” for hiring managers — a lot of it is situational and through resume, cover letter, or the interview prove to be non-issues.
How Do I Stop Ending Up as Second Best for an Internal Role?
I keep ending up as the runner up for a more senior role on my team. What can I do to better my chances the next time around?
- Tired of Being Number Two
Tones: Chances are there’s likely a component of your skillset that’s not as strong as the hiring manager wants it to be. The only way you’re going to know for certain is to ask. And as a big fan of candor when it comes to feedback, I’m not sure I can be convinced of a more effective way to find out.
I would like to think most hiring managers are happy to share feedback, but it may not always be the most top of mind for them in the moment.
Here’s a way to ask if you’re stuck on the ‘how’: “What do I need to improve on to land the senior role the next time there’s an opening?”
Brittany: Asking for feedback is hard, but it can be an opportunity to learn about yourself and how to grow. It may even be difficult to find someone who is willing to offer you that kind of feedback or be honest, but it will show commitment and an openness to personal and professional growth.
If your supervisor, internal hiring team, or manager are willing to sit down with you to offer feedback this is the best option to learn about what it would take to get to the more senior role. Ask what you can do to better your chances and bring your skills and experience up to those expectations for the next time this opportunity arises. See if there are any other kinds of tasks or projects you can take on that will help get you there.
It also could be that you have a different skillset that could be better suited for another role, or a new role. Ask for feedback often and how to measure your success. If you don't already have 1:1s with your supervisor, now is a good time to set it up to show that you're committed to your growth and how to learn to improve your chances.
Denise: It would be great to know what feedback (if any) you've received from your manager/hiring team about why you didn’t get that promotion. This insight would be helpful in figuring out the best way to approach your goal of getting promoted.
If you're able to get this information, bring that to a discussion with your manager and ask to work with them on a career plan that would ensure that you're set up for success the next time around.
I would also recommend interviewing outside the company to get some experience talking about yourself and what you've done, and understanding what the job market is like for the role you're looking for. That would help you get a better handle on what hiring managers are looking for, and it may well be that you'll find a better fit outside the company.
Stacy: Great advice! I’d also say that most senior roles on a team require some amount of leadership, so a lot of the advice around framing non-management leadership experience applies here too.
Scott: Tones or Brittany, any advice or thoughts on if they can’t get feedback from the hiring manager?
I agree with the idea of doing more interviews outside of the company. Interviewing is a skill and more practice will help you get better at it.
Tones: External interviews, agreed. This is somewhat in line with what I think all of us should be doing, regardless of how happy we are in our role. Always know what's out there, and in turn, exploring opportunities has a ton of value.
Scott: How often would you recommend people interview externally?
Brittany: I love the concept of mock interviews and asking for mentors to help review in case you can't get specific feedback. Some HR departments don't always give feedback and some managers may avoid giving specifics for their own reasons.
Stacy: I suggest people interview externally at least once a year. At the very least, update your resume every 6-12 months and apply for roles that interest you even if you are happy where you are at.
Scott: Also, my opinion is if you’re getting to runner up for senior roles on your team - you could be first choice at another company.
Tones: If you're just shopping for feedback, then interview for external roles sparingly. Otherwise, when you are ready to jump ship in your current role, you might find yourself with no bridges left to cross. So maybe once a year. Though, if you are applying to roles that you want to be at, chances are, you might find yourself with feedback or a new opportunity to mull over.
Super important note: if you're going to interview externally, you have to do two things to really make it meaningful.
Apply to the role that you want to be in within your org
Ask some variation of this question in the interview: "What concerns do you have around my ability to perform this role successfully?"
If you don't ask for feedback explicitly, then you'll have done all of that interview with no benefit.
Brittany: It's great to list any milestone accomplishments and projects and save it somewhere you'll remember.
Tones: Build a media page. Mine is a PDF.
Denise: Or if you have a website or a blog, have a place where you share articles you’ve written and interviews you’ve given.
Should I Skip Roles Asking For Technical Support Experience?
Many job postings list previous technical support experience as a requirement. Should I bother applying for these roles? Is there a way to highlight my personal skills and experience in lieu of direct role experience?
- Technically Not Experienced
Brittany: Absolutely! I'm a believer that there are many skills that can be taught, but it can be harder to train in "soft skills".
Having the ability to demonstrate good problem solving is a huge advantage whether your skills are specifically technical. There are plenty of bootcamps, online courses, etc. that can help you build your technical skill set. I've appreciated when applicants have expressed where their interests are in learning tech and an explanation of what they would like to use those skills for. There are also plenty of companies that hire for technical roles and will do the training post-hiring. It isn't a deal breaker for every hiring company/manager.
One applicant that comes to my mind was a person who had no specific experience with technical support, however they mentioned in their cover letter what they were learning on their own time to develop these skills and had enjoyed working on their own personal website and shared a link. The website they built was simple, but it tied all of the pieces together for me. They described on their site how they enjoyed helping people and linked resources and summaries of each, and they also demonstrated a knowledge of how to help someone else set up their own personal website with video tutorials, screenshots, and a mini knowledge base. We set up a screening call immediately. Ultimately, we didn't end up hiring them for other reasons, but seeing this kind of project made us excited to speak with them.
Denise: This varies depending on the role. If it's for a technical support engineer and you have no training or prior experience, it may be a little more difficult to get a foot in the door for those roles, but you should apply anyway if you have all the other skills apart from prior technical support experience.
If it's not, I would always encourage you to apply and hopefully get to the interview stage where you can share your prior experience in whatever shape or form, or get a better understanding of what they are looking for. Sometimes the requirements may be a wishlist, and they would be happy to meet you where you are.
I am very partial to people who may not be the most qualified but are willing to learn so they can gain that experience and qualification. If a candidate can demonstrate their willingness and capacity to learn and work collaboratively, I tend to lean towards them. Some technical skills can be taught, but ability/willingness to learn and work within a team isn't an easy thing to teach.
Tones: For this, I would say it depends on what the technical experience requirement is. Technical roles are tough for obvious reasons. Direct role experience concerning technical roles oftentimes will equate to your success in the role.
For example, if the role is asking for people with experience in supporting Java, and you assume that’s referring to caffeinated beverages, you ultimately aren’t going to be able to add value to that role or the team’s overall mission.
This isn’t to say that you can’t learn it on the job, but that’s very dependent on how quickly this company is looking to move. If they’re looking for immediate impact, and you don’t have the specific technical skill(s) they’re looking for, then I would say it’s not a good use of your time or their time to apply. However, if they’re explicit around helping you learn that aspect of the role, then apply away.
Stephanie Falch, Community Member: Coming from the education field into tech is difficult, as many recruiters indicate I have the transferable skills but hiring managers want someone with direct experience. I have been applying to roles and had a few interviews but have not been able to make a successful pivot yet. I am focusing on networking and looking for roles with a focus on relationship building and account management, which are focuses of my current role as a study abroad advisor.
Stacy: It sounds like you are focusing on a lot of the things Denise and Brittany called out! And to the point Tones made, some organizations/teams are set up to help folks “learn the ropes. I’d suggest getting in touch with folks on the team or at the company as well as doing some internet searching. This can give you a sense of what the environment is like, which can give you an idea if a role would be good to apply to.
Stacy: Stephanie, there are also a few Customer Success focused Slack communities/LinkedIn groups you might want to join too.
Stephanie: I am a part of a few; mostly focusing on networking in EdTech at the moment!
Scott: My two cents when it comes to technical roles is finding ways to demonstrate experience with the technology is better than courses or certifications. For example, a demo web app is going to get someone farther than a certification of completion for a web development course.
Denise: Oh that’s right, Scott! Show, don’t tell!
Scott: Another recommendation is getting freelance or volunteer experience related to the technology. I was trying to move into app development from web development years ago but the places I worked at had no interest in supporting that move. So I did it on my own time and went to a lot of hackathons. I landed a freelance job as an iOS developer after developing a simple mobile app at a hackathon. The freelance work helped me build a portfolio that led to full time jobs as an iOS developer.
About the Editor
Stacy Justino is a career coach as well as the Director of Customer Happiness at Wistia, a leading video hosting platform that enables marketers to get bigger results from their videos and podcasts. You can find her on LinkedIn or at Double Jump Career Coaching.
